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 Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff) 
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Post Re: Teh Science Topik
i think i might've seen that one. that the universe is actually a kind of 'projection' on the edges of the universe, just like on the event horizon of a black hole, i believe. i've seen it, but didn't understand even a bit of it, so can't help you there. ;)

what happened with the old science topic (we had one), i don't know, but i might be able to help out with that, stay tuned.

edit: found it!

2012-09-04 Tue 19:29:06
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Well this topic was more specifically related to the Higg's search, so I thought I'd make a new one for all general science talk....

And yeah that was the episode.

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2012-09-04 Tue 19:36:10
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
well i think that two topics about the universe would be enough, since it showed that no more than 4-5 people seemed to be really interested. ;)

but yeah, since i had such a hard time imagining that theory, i don't buy it (yet).

2012-09-04 Tue 19:41:15
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Yeah.. They just presented it as if it was already fact/accepted by the scientific community, which I'm sure is BS as they don't have the means to explain it properly yet.

But it does kinda connect to the theory that the universe is a simulation (Mix likes that one).

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2012-09-04 Tue 19:43:47
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Never Gonna Let You Down

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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Haven't seen the show but I'll try to see if I can find it some time. Don't think I've heard about this idea before though :P

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2012-09-04 Tue 19:57:20
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Hard to say what they're on about without having seen the show but it sounds like they might have been talking about brane theory. iirc there is a suggestion that the universe arises from the intersection of branes.

Was the former topic you were thinking of this one: viewtopic.php?t=940 ?

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2012-09-04 Tue 20:43:48
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Nope, not that topic.

Well, more specifically they were saying that when something gets sucked into a black hole, it doesn't get destroyed (ok we all knew that). The new thing though is that they say the 3d version gets destroyed, but the 2d version is stored on the surface of the black hole, just like data is stored on a hard drive.

So the 3d version was the "hologram" and the 2d version is the real data.
And thus, they say, all of what is contained in the universe is actually stored on the surface of the universe, and what we see as the 3d space is actually a hologram.

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2012-09-04 Tue 20:52:59
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Sounds wishy washy to me, but legit physicists seem to support that theory.

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2012-09-04 Tue 20:54:23
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Zell, it may be safer to read "mad man" when you read the word "theorist" :P

Not heard this theory before though, will try and find some time to read up on it!

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2012-09-05 Wed 09:17:59
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Not gonna argue with you on that... xD

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2012-09-05 Wed 10:52:25
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
So an update on that hologram theory.

I just saw the 2nd episode of the 1st season of Through The Wormhole, and it was on this theory. Apparently it's Leonard Susskind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Susskind who came up with the theory, and who got Stephen Hawkings to concede defeat on the topic of black holes and information.

This show was presented in a much better way than that National Geographic episode I saw. So it seems this has been an accepted theory for many years now.

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2012-09-08 Sat 15:46:40
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Ok, I've read about it a bit now. So it seems it's an accepted theory with regard to string theory and quantum gravity etc.

The problem with string theory is that it basically throws so many parameters at the problem that you can always solve any problem by changing them. The fact that you can fiddle it to explain everything actually makes it somewhat useless, since in some ways explaining everything explains nothing. It's like empirically fitting a graph with a fucntion that contains lots of parameters, you'll always have a nice fit, but you have no understanding of why that function should be the correct one, or what the parameters mean etc.

Until someone shows me something where string theory ever predicts something that is then proven by experiment, I'll continue to ignore it :P

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2012-09-08 Sat 15:56:17
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Yeah I suppose you know enough to call BS on those claims then ^^

One thing that confused me though, was that they spent quite a large portion of the episode saying how light cannot escape a blackhole, and explaining the methods they used to detect black holes. Then at the end of the episode where they conclude that the hologram theory is cool, they presented it in a way that says "yes, energy gets absorbed in the black hole and you get the projections on the event horizon"... That's conflicting information for my brain at least.

Any idea on where I may have misinterpreted that theory, even though you don't like it? :P

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2012-09-08 Sat 16:00:02
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
I think it's all based around entropy arguments, and Hawking showed that Black Holes must radiate photons, the so-called "Hawking Radiation". I guess they are saying that the Hawking radiation might represent the properties of the things lost in the Black Hole or something, but I'm not entirely sure.

There's also another interesting thing, if you get pair production happening on the event horizon, that is an electron-positiron pair produced, which could probably happen due to the high energy density, then those two particles are somewhat "entangled", so if one falls into the black hole and the other survives, then looking at the survivor might tell you about the one that fell in...

I'm not exactly calling BS on it, since it could be true. I don't really like the way it claims the universe is a hologram, that seems somewhat of a misinterpretation to me. As far as I could tell, it was saying that the fluctuations of the event horizon some how encode what is inside it. In that case, it's kind of like a hologram of everything that fell in. Since the entire Universe hasn't fallen in, then I don't get that part. Maybe I'm missing something too... I'm barely more of an expert about all this stuff than you are :P

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2012-09-08 Sat 16:09:41
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
I get the pairings created at the event horizon, and how one anti-matter particle might fall in and a matter particle go out, and the bit about the electron-positron pair.

Mmm.. but typing that has lit a lightbulb in my head.
So it's not necessarily that a copy or physical form of the matter that was absorbed into the black hole is also on the event horizon, but rather that just as you can reconstruct things based on current conditions, you can tell what fell in based on the ripples at the event horizon?

Neither of the shows explained how that relates to the entire universe being a hologram on the edges of the universe though. Does it at all?
Even if that were the case, we are the physical matter inside the universe, and I suppose an outside being could reconstruct what is going on based on the fluctuations on the edges of the universe... At least that's how I conclude the possible connection, but it seems it's actually the opposite. :/

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2012-09-08 Sat 16:49:21
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
Your last paragraph may well be what they are suggesting, it's hard to try to get this from reading without hearing the guys involved actually explain it or whatever.

There are some strange things with quantum entanglement. I think you can get a situation where you create two photons in the annihilation of an electron and a positron. Then if you polarise one of the photons and then look at the other photon, you find it has assumed the same polarisation as the first one. That's pretty odd, because it almost implies some sort of "action at a distance", whereby it knows what is happening to its partner. At least that's what I remember, it's been a while since I did all of this ;)

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2012-09-08 Sat 17:46:11
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
I remember reading something like that months ago, but reading it now boggles my mind again. Really interesting stuff :P

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2012-09-08 Sat 22:36:41
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
There is a cool experiment where you can shoot photons at a piece of card with two slits in it - and it makes a pattern where the waves interfere with each other. Just like water waves colliding at a harbour.

If you start shooting just one photon at a time this pattern still builds up over time - but not it you try to work out which of the two slits the photon went through. Crazy stuff :P

I think I remembered that correctly.... :ogog:

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2012-09-10 Mon 09:41:22
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
I read about that and should be doing that experiment in the 2nd semester of this coming year.

Whats not clear to me is if the pattern actually changes on the target when you place detectors at the slit, or if you give up observing the target in order to detect the photons at the slit?

Rereading on wikipedia gave me the impression of the latter, but the former would make more sense for the coolness aspect and the tralala regarding this experiment. :p

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2012-09-11 Tue 07:12:48
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Post Re: Higgs search at CERN (and other science stuff)
I think the former - it ought to be possible to detect the photon without stopping it. Maybe its more something to prove with maths then... cool principle none the less :P

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2012-09-11 Tue 08:53:05
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